nuova simonelli aurelia

la marzocco, synesso, simonelli, cimbali etc

nuova simonelli aurelia

Postby Jimmy Oneschuk on Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:02 am

Anyone know what is the deal with this machine?

It claims to have 100% temp stability, but they don't go as far as explaining why.

They sure love their single boiler machines...
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Postby jakethecoffeelover on Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:37 am

It might have a thermoblock prewarmer or works on 380V! Imagine an 11000W single boiler... wow...

The real reason is because they mean that it has 100% INTERshot stability. Their reason behind this is becuase it has a massive group (10 pounds, I think) and that makes it so that the temperature of your shots at the beginning and end of the day will have the exact same profile. This is really just a new way of marketing old technology.
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Postby barry on Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:47 pm

and given what NS has told me in the past, you'll get a brew temp of 185F.

--barry "the 'ideal' temp for espresso"

bah. :(
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Postby jakethecoffeelover on Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:06 pm

My Gaggia Espresso even stays above that temperature through the entire shot... I hope. I would not want to start brewing that low at least. The beginning of the shot would be sour, over acidic, and pungent.
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Postby barry on Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:41 am

then you're not blending & roasting properly, for there is never, ever, anything wrong with a simonelli design.

--barry "dripping sarcasm"
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Postby jakethecoffeelover on Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:50 pm

I realize that it's sarcasm... but I just don't get it! Who were you addressing?
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Postby barry on Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:46 pm

NS told me several years ago that 185F was the ideal brew temp for espresso. if there is a problem with your shot at that temp, then NS's attitude is the problem is with the coffee, not the machine.


--barry "klar?"
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Postby jakethecoffeelover on Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:06 pm

OIC...

Jake (yup!) Moss
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Postby kafejisto on Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:46 am

Barry,

I'm low on my mechanical knowledge so go easy on me, but does that mean that NS machines "don't heat up as much" as other machines? For example, I just recommended for purchase an older NS machine (Premier) for a store. It's a 3-group, with a 14l boiler. I pulled what I think are some very nice shots from it, at around 9bar (can I trust the built-in pressure gauge?). But, will temp still be low, like NS said? If so, how can I crank it up a few degrees, if at all, without spending money or doing mods to the machine?

Thanks.
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Postby jakethecoffeelover on Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:25 pm

I wouldn't do it until you here an NS knowledgable person verify this, but there should be a screw coming out of a small device attached to the boiler. You can turn the machine off (for safety) and screw it one way or the other. I don't know which way, I don't know how much, and I've never seen an NS machine. However, this is standard stuff. The only reason why I say to turn it off is because I've been told that adjusting the Tstat on an LM while it's on will give you a nasty shock. When there's 5-6000 watts running through the machine with less than 1000W going to the pump, I'd be worried!
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Postby barry on Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:35 pm

kafejisto wrote:I'm low on my mechanical knowledge so go easy on me, but does that mean that NS machines "don't heat up as much" as other machines? For example, I just recommended for purchase an older NS machine (Premier) for a store. It's a 3-group, with a 14l boiler. I pulled what I think are some very nice shots from it, at around 9bar (can I trust the built-in pressure gauge?). But, will temp still be low, like NS said? If so, how can I crank it up a few degrees, if at all, without spending money or doing mods to the machine?



when our machine, a program v, was used intermittently, we didn't really have many problems. when we got busy, though, i could watch the crema color lighten up. finally, i did some crude temperature measurements and found the brew temp would drop off significantly after about the sixth shot in a row, to about 185F. i contacted NS about this, and other issues, and was told in no uncertain terms that the 185F brew temperature was the ideal temp for espresso, and that if there were any problems with the espresso, it must be something in my blending or roasting.

after that, i ripped the machine apart and modified the heat exchanger, and brought brew temps up about 10 degrees or so, and used that machine for the next seven years.

that was my experience with NS.
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Postby kafejisto on Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:39 pm

Jake: Actually, the pressure adjustment is easy to reach, and I've already had to tweak it (not quite sure why, but I'm assuming our city water pressure was low at the time; once we get our softener installed in a day or two, that should fix that issue, I'd think). And, no, I didn't get shocked. The tech who installed it adjusted it "live", and it's a mechanical screw, so I'm assuming it's safe. :shock: But does that also increase the temperature? If so, is there a linear correlation between pressure and temp?

I know, basic question. As I said, my mechanical skills, at this point, leave much to be desired. But I'm learning, and wish to continue doing so. :-)
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Postby jakethecoffeelover on Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:19 pm

There are two completely different and independant pressures in espresso machines. There is steam boiler pressure (which directly affects temperature in heat exchanger machines) and the pump pressure. When the water heats up in the steam boiler, it evaporates to steam and expands, creating that pressure. I believe that you get 0 BAR at 212F no matter what your altitude, since we are talking relative to sea level. In the 250-270 range it goes up to 1.3 BAR or something like that. Pump pressure is obviously how much force the pump is applying to the water in the boiler to push that water through the coffee puck. So, unless you have a heat exchanger machine, pressure has nothing to do with temperature. I was actually confused because you talked about it running too cold and then seemed to make a direct correlation between the temperature and pulling nice shots at 9 BAR. I thought you were thinking that the "9 BAR" related to temperature. My bad!
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Postby geir oglend on Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:03 pm

Barry, I thought I pipe in here and inform you
little about jakethecoffeelover.
This genius young man is only 15 years old. I had the pleasure of his company for about an hour last weekend and I was completely in awe over his coffee and coffee machine knowledge.
Yes, he will build a machine and it will fly, I'll put money on it.
Is it safe to say, this is the youngest tech/geek?
Keep up the good work Jake.

geir.

ps. Awesome americano, Nick!
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Postby barry on Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:31 pm

i don't have any doubts his intentions are solid. i'm concerned about his spending a bunch of $$ before he has more of the details worked out, and then discovering he's got the wrong stuff.
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Postby barry on Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:36 pm

jakethecoffeelover wrote:been told that adjusting the Tstat on an LM while it's on will give you a nasty shock.


adjusting the t-stat on a marzocco is nothing at all like adjusting a p-stat (except a screw gets turned in both instances).

the LM t-stat adjustment screw is in a very bad position, and has live, bare electrical contacts mere millimeters away. a small slip of the screwdriver (made more likely because it's a slot adjustment screw), and there's lots of fun blue flashes and popping noises. if you're lucky, only the circuit breaker blows, as happened at last year's roasters' guild retreat when a very very experienced person attempted to adjust the t-stat on one the LM in the dining room. not me.

--barry "'course, it could have been all the beer he'd had, too"
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Postby Jimmy Oneschuk on Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:16 pm

holy off topic, batman.

anyway, I also read the aurelia has won an award as the only ergonomically certified machine... but by whom, they don't say.

just so you know, i was certified the best barista in the universe the other day... (pffff!!)

as far as it's 100% temp stability, if this is accomplished through individual restrictors... then it wouldn't be much different than many other hx machines out there.

hmmm.
Last edited by Jimmy Oneschuk on Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Peter G on Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:05 am

Back in June, I was emailing with John Peeters of NS about this issue. I was asking him questions...he replied that they were doing more testing and he would have data to me "next week". That was in June.

Last week, I re-emailed him about this, reminding him of our conversation in June and asking again how they are achieving 100% brew temp stability. So far no response.

Peter G
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Postby Matt Milletto on Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:54 am

If anyone in Portland wants to bench test/pull shots on the Auralia we can. We have an Aurelia Plus 3-Group at our espresso lab, along with a LM Linea and other machines.

Peter, I am pretty sure John Peeters does not work at NS anymore, I would ask for Ryan, their tech. 360-366-2226z

- m
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Postby onocoffee on Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:18 pm

I'm a bit disappointed in all of you with regards to this issue. Lots of great questions about the Aurelia and it's performance ability, but it seems that no one took the time to really test drive the two-group Aurelia I had at the BGA Booth in Seattle.

I thought it was a great opportunity for the hardcore baristas to put the latest and greatest single boiler machine through its' paces and see what it could do. But all the reports I got from our volunteers was that the visiting baristas ignored the machine or poo-poo'd on it for either: a) being a Simonelli, b) being a single-boiler machine, or c) having an automatic frother.

There they were: a La Marzocco Hybrid with pre-GB5 prototype electronics, a production model Cyncra and the Aurelia. Three great machines provided so that baristas could try them out without the pressure of testing them in a manufacturers' booth and everyone seems to have ignored the Aurelia.

As for myself, I only had the time to install the machines and tear them down, save for a couple quick visits at the beginning, middle and end of the days to make sure things were running as smooth as possible.

But that Aurelia seemed promising and has some great looks.
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Postby Mark Prince on Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:08 am

Hey speak for yourself. ;) I've had some face time with the Aurelia, and think it's a great step forward by Nuova Simonelli.

That said, there are some technical issues with the machine that NS needs to address; the machine I fooled around with actually "crashed" at one point ;)

Mark
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Postby Jimmy Oneschuk on Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:47 am

The main problem I see with this machine is there hasn't been much information on what makes it different.

But I agree with you. If the Aurelia is indeed on par with dual boiler machines - we should forget the hype and be taking active interest in the approach and technology which makes this possible.
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Re: nuova simonelli aurelia

Postby Gabe Smentek on Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:46 am

I'm bringing it back y'all!

6 years later. The official machine of the competitions. What do we think of the Aurelia now? What are some problems you might have seen? Do you have it running in your shop?
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Re: nuova simonelli aurelia

Postby MeanJoeBean on Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:58 am

I'll dive in.

I've been a fan of Simonelli machines for quite a few years now (read: not fanboy), and I have worked on and installed a fair share of Aurelias. First off, the build quality is leaps and bounds above any machine they've ever built, with the exception of their Arduino line. The grouphead is also damn good for temperature stability because of its weight (14 lbs!), an issue that many of the dual boiler peeps are always ranting about. Never really been a fan of dual boilers, but ya know...

Being here in the south, the Aurelia suffers from the same issues as any other machine: poor water quality leading to heavy calcium build up, electrical storms blowing out control boards (happens more than you think!), and low water pressure in some areas. As far is it goes, for me, I'd put the Aurelia in the upper echelon of espresso machines right now, it is the WBC machine for a reason.

We've got an Aurelia Digit in the office that we've been messing around with for the past week, beautiful machine. Plus its PID controlled, which is all the rage right now.

Certified by the European Institute of Psychology and Ergonomics! Psshhh, when have they ever steered us wrong?

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