Smaller drinks

the business of coffee houses

Smaller drinks

Postby Richard Hartnell on Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:10 pm

I almost posted this in the "Traditional cappuccino" thread, but I didn't want to hijack and this seems like a topic I want to explore.

Our shop makes a ton of money on giant flavored mochas (often skim). We usually have a bigass rush of these drinks in the morning and then various others peppered throughout the day. As a barista who often works in the afternoons/evenings when people are more likely to want to sit around with a cuppa, I like to subtly encourage customers to try two small drinks instead of one large.

It seems to me, though, that coffee is more in the "food" category for people than the "drink" category. Think about it this way: would you go to a wine bar to do four hours of homework, but only buy one glass of wine? Heck no. Nor would you take someone out to a bar for a two-hour date and nurse one beer the entire time. In coffee, however, I've seen people nurse everything from a 16oz. latte to a 3oz. macchiato for up to three hours. Besides, the only option is to often buy a refillable cup of drip coffee. Perhaps a second-drink discount is in the works (drop 25c off the price of your second espresso drink for here)?

The matter on our side of things seems twofold; for starters, two little drinks costs a little more than one large drink (and baristi run the chance of getting tipped twice). Secondly, sucking down the last 8oz. of a 16oz. latte is going to be much less pleasurable than just drinking two 8oz. lattes.

Does anyone out there feel what I'm getting at? Any ideas on how to get coffee out of drug culture (getting your daily "dose") and into drink culture (going out to the coffee shop for drinks)?
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Postby xristrettox on Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:27 pm

The problem is that you are comparing two different drugs, that have drastic differences in their affects.
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Re: Smaller drinks

Postby Jim Schulman on Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:24 pm

Velveteen wrote: Think about it this way: would you go to a wine bar to do four hours of homework, but only buy one glass of wine? Heck no. Nor would you take someone out to a bar for a two-hour date and nurse one beer the entire time.


I recall nursing the "cover charge" drink (or 2nd drink if the cover included two) for ridiculous time periods in nightclubs and discos.

In many cafes, the drink price is, in effect, the table rent. Used to be one read the paper and exchanged gossip; now it's more likely to be web surfing via the local wi-fi. Starbucks, despite their 3rd place propaganda, realizes there's more profit in providing to go canteens of caffeinated milk than in renting tables.
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Postby ypoedza on Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:43 pm

i think that is one of the largest problems in our culture right now, people consuming things because of quanity instead of quality. we should seriously find a way to fix that!!
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Postby darrylr on Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:40 pm

I believe it's not problem of culture but rather of marketing. Some time ago food retailers discovered they can increase profit by upping portion size and therefore price. Even with price moving up by a larger percentage than portions (thus the imrpoved profit) consumers perceived they were getting a better value.

A problem with hunger perception is that you tend to eat most of what's put in front of you, and then you get used to that portion size. So a positive feedback thing happens--retailers increase portion size, consumers adapt, retailers increase again, etc. Try that for 20 or so years, which basically is the history of food in America for the past 20 years...

Bringing this back to coffee, Starbucks didn't start offering 20 oz drinks because customers demanded them. Tney offered the drinks because it was an idea to increase profits.

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Re: Smaller drinks

Postby jmc on Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:00 pm

Velveteen wrote:Does anyone out there feel what I'm getting at? Any ideas on how to get coffee out of drug culture (getting your daily "dose") and into drink culture (going out to the coffee shop for drinks)?

The level of quality has to continue upward (As it has been IMHO), from roasters to baristas. I am not sure size is the core issue; one could still have an amazing 20oz French Press or cuppa drip that changes the way one thinks about coffee forever. I think everyone on this forum is working towards a common goal: to create an awareness that coffee can be an amazing culinary experience. Barista comps, single origins, auction coffees, PIDS, relationship coffees, and all this static and progression that has erupted in the last couple of years is hopefully all pushing coffee forward - it takes a while for the guy on his way to work who wants a 20oz caramel latte to to catch up.
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Postby ypoedza on Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:56 am

what your talking about is cultural. we have a culture right now that puts profit way before quality and quanity equals profit. this is short sighted though, the sustainabilty of a culture that consumes as much as we do is not realistic. WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!! just kidding, sort of.
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Postby jmc on Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:09 am

Could somebody please refill Dan's half empty 24oz paper cup of Fair Trade Dark Roast Cafe Blend? :wink:
Last edited by jmc on Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Smaller drinks

Postby Matt Riddle on Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:09 am

Velveteen wrote:Secondly, sucking down the last 8oz. of a 16oz. latte is going to be much less pleasurable than just drinking two 8oz. lattes.
That's really a matter of opinion.

I actually enjoy some coffees after they have cooled to room temperature. I've found myself on some weekends going back and drinking the last 1/2 of the pot i brewed an hour ago.

Are you more concerned about people buying large drinks, or people camping on the cheap? I think it's two different discussions.
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Re: Smaller drinks

Postby michael m on Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:38 am

Velveteen wrote:.Our shop makes a ton of money on giant flavored mochas (often skim). We usually have a bigass rush of these drinks in the morning and then various others peppered throughout the day. As a barista who often works in the afternoons/evenings when people are more likely to want to sit around with a cuppa, I like to subtly encourage customers to try two small drinks instead of one large.


If you wish to be rude, you can tell customers the nutritional information of their non-fat mega-mochas. Of course, this doesn't help sell them two; it most likely makes them buy none--at least from you. I guess that's not subtle.

If you wish to be romantic, you can highlight and emphasize the fleeting beauty of fresh espresso and related beverages. Of course, this demands customers to taste and appreciate at levels they might not find comfortable. Perhaps too subtle.

If you wish to be dogmatic, you can eliminate the larger than large "milkshake" drinks altogether from the menu. Of course, customers may still ask for them, suggest them, even demand them. You may have to hire a bouncer.

If you wish to be clever, you can rename your drink sizes as Large, Extra Large, Extra Super Large and Blubber's Bladder Buster Bucket. Of course, this may be an accidental marketing hit. You may need to install an extra toilet. Or two.

Other impractical and downright awful ideas:

* Competitive Coffee Consumption Contest.

* Jukebox loaded with timeless drinking songs.

* Hyper Hour with straight-jackets and adult moon-bounce.

* Free salty sleepy snacks like Ambien pretzels and Valium peanuts.

* On-site defibrillator and T-Shits that read, "I was Cardiac Arrested at X Cafe."

* A giant gong that customers can bang after ordering a second, third, fourth or subsequent drink, with a big sign up front that dares, "How Many Times Are You Going To Hit It Today?"

More practically and tastefully (not to mention effectively), I would be looking to further attract and nurture those customers who care about quality, taste, service, experience. Not everyone is going to go for smaller drinks, just as not everyone is going to appreciate a beautiful straight espresso.

As for offering second-drink discounts or making smaller drinks less expensive, I wouldn't do it. If you wish to compete on the level of price alone, you may attract some bargain-hunting customers; however, these customers will not be adequately "sticky" over time to truly bring about the change you desire. Further, you risk losing your focus on furthering quality and being reduced to the lowest common denominator in the cup.

It is important that you market and target your small drinks and repeat drink hopes to those people whom you identify as having the best chance of truly appreciating, learning and growing as coffee consumers through your interactions with them. By this, I don't mean judging individuals; rather, I mean creating the atmosphere and opportunity that allows the sorts of customers you seek to reveal themselves to you.

To me, the key is to remain focused on positive, beneficial aspects of small drinks or multiple drinks rather than dwell on negative aspects of large or single drinks. Don't engage in any practice or commentary that will make customers feel bad or awkward or unenlightened or unwelcome for ordering what they want at the moment. (If its on your menu, make it and serve with the utmost of pride.) Instead, emphasize the opportunities and possibilities of what you have to offer that is unique, differentiated and of potential value to your customer now and, most importantly, in the future. You need to introduce the concept of small and repeat drinks, build the value of small drinks and repeat drinks, and then deliver on consistently providing that value to your customer as promised.

Introducing small drink and repeat drinks can be done simply at the time of drink presentation. After thanking your customer, simply mention, "I hope you enjoy your mega-mocha/whatever. If you would like any suggestions on an appropriate follow-up drink, I'd love to tell you about some special ideas I have in mind," or something like that. Whatever you do or say at that time, don't sell, don't make specific recommendations, and keep it as simple and clean as possible. You're just opening the idea of a second and unique drink to your customer with an intriguing invitation. Your entire objective is to have the customer return after they've consumed their current drink or to ask your advice upon their next visit, at which point you can ask questions, initiate discussion, and make specific recommendations. You want them merely to consider, not decide nor choose at this point. This only works if you bring a high degree of grace, honor, respect, care and humility to your service. This means appropriate eye contact, tone, demeanor, pace, body language, etc.

One of the most effective ways to introduce a new customer to a small or second drink is for them to witness others drinking them. "What's that over there?" is a common reaction when someone orders something unusual or different. Use that to your advantage by making service and presentation of small drinks as flawless and special as possible. I don't mean adding hokey bells and whistles and take-home tiki glasses. I mean having high quality and most appropriate for-here cups, saucers, spoons readily available at all times for your smallest drinks. I mean practicing the pour on your smallest drinks until they are predictably perfect. I mean pulling every single shot of espresso to the most discriminating degree. If you stumble or falter in the slightest when someone orders a small drink, then you are diverting attention away from the drink and to your execution. My goal as barista and server is to be as invisible and seamless yet attentive and present as possible. It will never be about me as much as the coffee and my customer. When customers see other customers enjoying small and second drinks, when customers taste the difference of beautiful small-drink coffee, that is far more effective than any spiel I may ever elucidate about why mega-mochas are ridiculous bastardized profit-generating consumption-oriented corporate-marketing health-imperilling bullshit.

Building value of small and repeat drinks is rooted in quality of taste, of which I'm sure you already do an exceptional job; nonetheless, value is developed in total experience of your customer on many dimensions of sensory and emotional response. We need to educate and elevate our customers without coming off as indoctrinating pretentious snobs. Help your customers pay attention and begin to develop a vocabulary for their coffee experience. Concentrate on exactly what you wish to convey and hone in on articulating and demonstrating one point at a time through multiple mediums such as conversation, print and pictures. Have and keep a determined focus, a measurable goal, a testable hypothesis about how to communicate and effect change to bring out the best in what you have to offer others. Again, you can never tell who in particular will respond to your efforts; nonetheless, you need to keep broadcasting your signal to each and every customer to get yourself on the radar of those who will respond positively.

My recommendation here is build value beyond the intellectual sensory analysis of great coffee. Most people feel this sort of discussion is too high-brow or elitist for them. Using poetic descriptions of flavors and sensations that people can't identify or don't experience yet serves to alienate the common coffee drinker from ever venturing beyond House Blend or 20 ounce triple non-fat sugar-free raspberry white chocolate mocha with half a Splenda. I'm not saying these descriptions are not valuable nor worthwhile; just that you need MORE than telling. You need to challenge your customer and give them gentle guidance, confident leadership and inspiring direction to achieve their own experience. Don't ever say, "Oh, these people don't care," or, "Nobody will notice," or, "My customers are idiots." There are lots of people out there thirsting to learn, discover, grow, and enjoy a better coffee than they currently know. The problem is that almost all of the hype out in big-time mass-market coffee marketing land does not deliver where it matters: increasing respect, advancing knowledge, and inspiring confidence in the veracity and integrity of the specific marketing claim and the coffee industry as a whole. Understand that your customers have been told dozens of times, "This is the best," or, "This is gourmet," or, "This is the ultimate," only to be overcharged and sorely disappointed by inferior product, improper preparation, incomplete knowledge, bad service, and/or poor support. Thus, the cornerstone of building value for your effort begins with developing trust and earning the earmark of integrity. This is done largely on an emotional level. Of course, you better bring your best game and deliver your best coffee at all times, whether others appreciate it yet or not, whether they will appreciate it ever or not.

This leads me back to consistency. Without a certain level of consistency, nothing you do will matter very much in this business. My goal as barista is to exceed expectations at every opportunity, and to simultaneously raise those expectations whenever possible.

To sum up my long-winded exegesis here: Be graceful, stand proud, earn trust, encourage people to try new things, deliver the best possible drink and coffee experience at all times. Don't hard sell. Don't price discount. Present appealing opportunities for discovery in a safe and friendly environment that concentrates on truth in the cup and the ultimate overall experience of your customer.

I'm sure you already do a great job. I know you work at a great shop. From one barista to another, thank you and keep at it!

There are articles I would recommend as reading regarding this topic:

Tim Harford's Slate article concerning Starbuck's short size.

Shannon Brownlee's Washington Post article on Portion Distortion.

Julie Deardorf of the Chicago Tribune's article on Portion Distortion.
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Postby )on on Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:14 pm

I'm sorry, but I think that's one of the most lucid, comprehensive and beautiful scriptings of what it means to be a barista... anywhere. And most coffeepeeneurs would do the world a favor by starting here.

I was recently thinking that as much as we talk about 'educating the consumer,' most consumers don't want to be educated, they want to consume. Yes, you continually look for the opportunities and you're ready and thrilled when the opportunities arise, but being positive ad infinitum seems to be key... why do you consume what & where you do?

Passion is contagious - I think that's why most of us are here.
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Re: Smaller drinks

Postby Teri Lee on Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:23 pm

Velveteen wrote:Our shop makes a ton of money on giant flavored mochas (often skim).


Richard, did you realize that we serve more double espressos than giant flavored mochas? Americanos outsell those choco-bombs by 50%, too.

Also, giant mochas aren't as profitable as you might think, since we waste that fourth shot to make them.
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Re: Smaller drinks

Postby Jaime van Schyndel on Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:54 pm

Teri Lee wrote:Richard, did you realize that we serve more double espressos than giant flavored mochas?


Ditto here too.

There are consumers and there are afficiandos. I have a great appreciation and affection for the latter.
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Postby Deferio on Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:26 pm

Micheal M.
Nicely put indeed. I am printing that and giving to all my Baristas...
If that's cool.
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Italian or American?

Postby Rich Westerfield on Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:19 pm

Those of you in urban areas or near universities are the envy of most of the rest of us. In the burbs it's large vanilla decaf lattes, skim no foam, often with protein powder. And lots of them. Today we had six strollers in the place at once. All wanted flavored something or others.

We do get a respectable number of espresso and capp drinkers, probably more than anyone else outside of the city, and we tend to keep those that just stumble across us. We do fawn over them. Do we ever. And these folks love to talk coffee with us.

Still, we know we'd have tons more 'serious' coffee drinkers if we weren't in the burbs.

While we may never see an end to the silly latte orders, we may see a large reduction in the number of huge capps.

We have developed a simple question that insiduously encourages customers to opt for quality. When someone asks for a cappa, we reply, "Would you like traditional Italian or American?"

That's sort of like being asked, "Would you like your pizza made with San Marzano tomatoes or Domino's sauce?"

A surprising number of customers opt for the Italian 6oz and like it. Those who order the American usually comment that they want and like big drinks simply because they're big. Although one customer thought it was patriotic to order the American.

And that's OK.
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Re: Italian or American?

Postby Matt Riddle on Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:26 am

PaniniGuy wrote:Those of you in urban areas or near universities are the envy of most of the rest of us. In the burbs it's large vanilla decaf lattes, skim no foam, often with protein powder. And lots of them. Today we had six strollers in the place at once. All wanted flavored something or others.

Not necessarily, I recently was on of the instructors at a training session (Jam-type deal) near a prominent university. We started out the day by going around the room asking each barista what the most popular drink was at their cafe..NOT ONE said espresso, cappuccino, drip coffee or even latte. It was all blended or choco-goodness drinks. Every barista was there because they were passionate about coffee and quality and everything that goes with it.

PaniniGuy wrote:Still, we know we'd have tons more 'serious' coffee drinkers if we weren't in the burbs.
We are always having customers come in for tours and classes from the burbs who are asking for us to expand to X Suburb of Chicago. I don't think it's a matter of subrub vs. urban because we have our fair share of XL Mocha with whip cream and XL cappas as well. It's about educating your customer, wherever you are. I've seen the transition from the XL cappa to traditional customer. It can happen. Keep on doing what you do. Customers will come around.

PaniniGuy wrote:A surprising number of customers opt for the Italian 6oz and like it. Those who order the American usually comment that they want and like big drinks simply because they're big. Although one customer thought it was patriotic to order the American.

And that's OK.
Can I add an order of Freedom Fries to that? :)
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Postby Tim Dominick on Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:00 am

We're at the bottom of the hill from a mid-sized university. Sure, there are quite a few grad students and professors drinking cappuccinos and single shots but the vast majority of the undergrads drink 16 oz vanilla lattes, smoothies, mocha shakes and the like. Both camps deserve excellent customer service and quality

The highschool kids drink tea squeezes, fruit juice and italian sodas. The soccer moms and their strollers get hot chocolates and drip coffees. Again, both demographics deserve excellent customer service and quality. If you can't/wont provide service, they'll find it from someone else, perhaps the fella who doesn't put quality first.

Generalizations....all of them, but the truth is I would rather sell 10 mochas AND 10 cappuccinos AND 10 smoothies than piss 20 people off when I put on an air of ultra-sophistication, like I just spent a week in Europe or something.... Scoffing at someone who buys something I choose not to drink is petty and immature at best. Spending time bemoaning the fact that money is being put in the drawer is just as silly. If folks are willing to be so principled and down on suburbanites and soccer moms on coffeed.com, lets see the same folks drop sugary drinks from the menu. There are but a few shops that have taken this step and may rest on their principles. More power to 'em! The rest of us should just relax,smile and be grateful when the 16 oz vanilla protein powershake latte customer comes in and plops down $4.50.
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Postby Alistair Durie on Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:28 pm

Why not just open the convenience store and offer everything people want... potato chips and chewing gum... there's great margin in slushies. Its pure business, and there's one on every other corner.

I do not approve of "scoffing". If a customer orders something we don't offer we are very polite, and suggest they try what we have to offer. I will even kindly direct them to the nearest starbucks (not far away). Perhaps there is a better store for them that has more of what they desire. Perhaps they are not the right customer for us, and we're not the right shop for them. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

There's room for the shops that want to pimp out the syrups and power shakes, and there's room for the shops that would prefer to focus on the coffee. No sides, no right or wrong, as there are many different types of customers. With a menu design where coffee is the primary taste, we differentiate from the large chains and non-coffee focused convenience based businesses. The goal is that the customer will experience the taste of coffee. Very few other foods rival this magical flavor.

Through this we attract the type of customers looking for this experience. They attract others of a similar type, and a wonderful base of coffee freaks is cultivated.

Our aim is that our customers experience the magic that coffee has to offer. Simple as that. Hide your syrup. Downsize. Get people tasting great coffee, and you have no competition.

Its still very hard to find a great cup of coffee anywhere in this world.
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Postby Jaime van Schyndel on Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:51 am

Alistair Durie wrote:Get people tasting great coffee, and you have no competition.

Its still very hard to find a great cup of coffee anywhere in this world.


That is the pure essence of why a coffeecentric shop can thrive.

A vanilla latte is still a vanilla latte at starbucks or the indie shop, no big difference. The difference between a good espresso and a cheap one is staggering though.
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Postby nick on Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:29 am

Are you sure? Have you had a vanilla latte at Starbucks, and one at a truly quality-focused shop?

I think the differences there can be characterized as "staggering" too. Some of the most positive feedback that we've gotten was in response to one of our "add syrup" drinks.

On a related note, our mission (that I know we all share) is indeed teaching people about what great coffee is, means, and entails. With that in mind, how can you teach anyone anything if they've already left your shop in search of something don't serve or don't want to serve? Of course, there are limits, but you have to meet people "where they are." Otherwise, you'll simply be the best coffee that nobody's ever heard of.

Granted, "where they are" in general can depend greatly on the demographics of your area and market. YMMV.
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Postby Jaime van Schyndel on Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:03 am

nick wrote:Are you sure? Have you had a vanilla latte at Starbucks, and one at a truly quality-focused shop?

Cute.
I'm sure you have the best quality flavored lattes...
The point is, if you serve flavor lattes, you are in direct competition with all the major chains like starbucks and peets. If you sell flavored coffee, you are in direct competition with the donut chains. That means there are 'many' alternatives to you and no matter how good your vanilla latte is, you can always get one down the street and for probably less. These are fickle customers who can leave your shop for any reason.
I'm not really willing to argue this too much though. Flavor lattes don't interest me so much as the potential of coffee as a culinary experience. I think there is a good market for this out there and to be honest, there aren't many shops taking this tact.

BTW Nick... saying some people are 'hardcore' is geting old... Why don't you consider saying culinary focused coffee shops because that's what they are. They are not eltists as Alistair points out, they are not throwing people out the door like some soup nazi, they are choosing to differentiate themselves from the chains by focusing on coffee flavors not flavored coffees. That's fine and it's an intriguing high end concept.
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Postby onocoffee on Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:57 am

*Disclosure: I am a manufacturer of syrups sweetened with both sugar and sucralose.


If there's "room" for shops that choose to pimp out whatever they desire, what's the problem and why the consternation?

Personally speaking, I don't care whether or not other shops choose to offer other products like crepes, soups or panini sandwiches. If a quality-oriented shop chooses to offer tertiary products that helps them to stay in business and spreading The Good Word of Quality Coffee, then sell all the damn paninis that you can.

But if you're going to take the elitist (or "culinary focused" bullshit) route, then are you truly "hardcore"? Or are you just posit-ing yourself as such while you quietly serve tertiary products, like paninis on an over-glorified George Foreman Grill?

I would think that the truly "culinary focused" coffee shop would offer only coffee and only the best coffees they could possibly source. Let that be the true source of your passion - and your revenue.

As John Hornall said in Portafilter.net Podcast 50 - Hines was focused on coffee. Just a big espresso machine, a big roaster and a couple of pastries - it was only about the coffee. How many of you who espouse yourselves to be "culinary focused" can claim that?

It seems that there's constantly a current of "who's the more hardcore of the crowd" kind of thinking and that's akin to the universal "crab mentality" which is just dumb.

Instead of being grateful that there is a continental community of professionals pursuing quality coffee, there always seems to be this notion of others not being "culinary focused" enough.

With all this hardcore talk about culinary BS, I wonder how many of you would lose the faith if you discovered that one of the most respected and "hardcore" roasters in America offered flavored coffees and pods...




.
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Postby nick on Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:19 am

Jaime van Schyndel wrote:Cute.
I'm sure you have the best quality flavored lattes...
The point is, if you serve flavor lattes, you are in direct competition with all the major chains like starbucks and peets. If you sell flavored coffee, you are in direct competition with the donut chains. That means there are 'many' alternatives to you and no matter how good your vanilla latte is, you can always get one down the street and for probably less. These are fickle customers who can leave your shop for any reason.

Cute indeed. :roll:
You seem to have an underlying assumption that flavored-latte customers have no concept of quality whatsoever. If that were true, then those folks are truly a lost cause. I don't dismiss people that easily; I'd rather turn them into that "my customer" that we're looking for.


Jaime van Schyndel wrote:BTW Nick... saying some people are 'hardcore' is geting old...

Umm, I don't see where I wrote anything like that. But along those lines, speaking of "hardcore," you might be the most mindblowing lover in bed... but if you say you don't like to kiss, you might find yourself left to your own devices more often than you would otherwise. :wink:
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Postby Jaime van Schyndel on Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:33 am

nick wrote:Umm, I don't see where I wrote anything like that.


I made the leap to actually listen to my second pf podcast. My god, 2 hours...

onocoffee wrote:If there's "room" for shops that choose to pimp out whatever they desire, what's the problem and why the consternation?

I was feeling some consternation by the syrup people against the idea of a purist coffee shop.

onocoffee wrote:I would think that the truly "culinary focused" coffee shop would offer only coffee and only the best coffees they could possibly source. Let that be the true source of your passion - and your revenue.

Interesting thought. I just wonder why you throw out cannolis and paninis also. They can be "hardcore" :wink:

onocoffee wrote:With all this hardcore talk about culinary BS, I wonder how many of you would lose the faith if you discovered that one of the most respected and "hardcore" roasters in America offered flavored coffees and pods...

So what.

... and BTW about all this culinary BS... well where's my copy of third wave mantra...
"'Third Wave' as letting the coffee speak for itself. During the first two waves, we appreciated coffee for what it gives us: caffeine, a hot beverage to sip and enjoy a conversation over, a drink to modify with sweetener, dairy (or non-dairy) creamers, syrups, whipped cream, etc. The Third Wave is about enjoying coffee for what it is."
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http://www.barismo.com/
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Postby onocoffee on Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:51 am

Jaime van Schyndel wrote: well where's my copy of third wave mantra...
"'Third Wave' as letting the coffee speak for itself. During the first two waves, we appreciated coffee for what it gives us: caffeine, a hot beverage to sip and enjoy a conversation over, a drink to modify with sweetener, dairy (or non-dairy) creamers, syrups, whipped cream, etc. The Third Wave is about enjoying coffee for what it is."
-Nick Cho



Hmmm, you respond to a passage written to me with a quote from The Cho...

While The Cho and I co-host the Portafilter.net Podcast, him and I are not one and the same, nor are we in agreement at all times on all subject matter.

Just as you, as a barista, do not take the Starbucks mantra as Gospel merely because Starbucks says so, I do not take The Cho's writings/sayings as Gospel for the very same reason.



Jaime van Schyndel wrote:I just wonder why you throw out cannolis and paninis also.


Because I have no need for an overglorified (read:expensive) George Foreman Grill.



BTW, two hours in the Portafilter.net Podcast is nothing. Two hours is Easy Peasy. But just like Simon's isn't for everyone, the Portafilter.net Podcast isn't for everyone either.

You're welcome to download and listen to the Starbucks podcast. It's only about 40 minutes.
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