2007 Best of Panama

coffee competitions, auctions, best of panama, etc

Postby Mark Prince on Tue May 29, 2007 2:33 pm

Mark Prince
Just in it for the espresso and coffee, Vancouver BC
Mark Prince
Posts: 1064
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:13 am
Location: vancouver bc
full name: Mark Prince
company: CoffeeGeek.com
: www.CoffeeGeek.com

Postby Christopher Schooley on Tue May 29, 2007 2:39 pm

I hear you Steve, that's why I remain a bit skeptical. I agree with both you and Mark on the median price issue, the question to ask is where were the bidders for the other offerings? It seems that a lot of people agree that many of the other lots were great coffees. When Esmerelda skyrocketed, wht didn't the other lots pick up more competition? These are questions, I really don't know because I wasn't bidding on anything myself so perhaps I don't have the right to ask. I do think that it is right to say that the auctions play a huge role on the future of Specialty Coffee and the pricing and marketing there of.
Armed to the teeth with secret words
Christopher Schooley
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:25 am
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
full name: Christopher Schooley
company: Coffee Shrub
: www.coffeeshrub.com

Postby James Hoffmann on Tue May 29, 2007 2:48 pm

Was there anything Wataru weren't bidding on?!
James Hoffmann
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:34 am
Location: London, UK
full name: James Hoffmann
company: Square Mile Coffee Roasters
: http://www.squaremilecoffee.com
: http://www.jimseven.com

prices in the panama auction

Postby sweetmarias on Tue May 29, 2007 3:54 pm

i'll state the obvious: panama is a special case because of the extreme difference between the Gesha coffees and the "traditional" coffees (meaning the ones that cup with true Panama origin character). this is going to lend itself to a price gap.

if you feel the prices of the other lots are so low, why aren't you bidding on them? we all want sensible prices for coffee. I am not sure how many reading this were buying green during the coffee crisis, but that cemented in our minds that this meant paying a sensible price so the farm could produce the quality of coffee our businesses demanded. I always felt that applied to the other end of the spectrum too; isn't it an affront to coffee farmers who get 1.50 for their nice product to see jbm sell for 22 when it is mild to mediocre, at best. with the coffee auctions, this "lack of sense" finds a new form of expression.

but then again, we all have different businesses, and what is "sensible" for one is not for another. 11.80 is perfect for me, and it also makes sense for my palate. i mean, by my book i think i bought the best coffee in the auction. but if others differ, and want to spent 130, then that must be sensible to them.

if they also think gesha coffee deserves that sort of premium, fine. again, i would disagree because i cupped the pre-ship of esmeralda especial vs. the auction lot and preferred the former to the later. last year i liked the auction lot gesha a bit better and we offered the #1, #2 and #3 coffees as a set.

anwyay, i think we all have to consider the value of "gesha" or any other exotic cultivars. we are going to see a lot of this. I am buying a gesha from costa rica and from guatemala. it's being planted many palces, nicaragua in particular, and petersons are selling the seed. so what's gesha worth? well, for me its only worth what it expresses in the cup. and that's true with all cultivar. i mean, i like bourbon coffees, but not if they suck! are we going to have people offering true gesha coffees that suck, at inflated prices? believe me, i have cupped a few that are truly miserable coffees.

the more fundimental question about auctions and the prices paid for top coffees is (imho) not just about the median price for all the lots. the issue is whether they help out all the farmers in the country or not. i really wonder. in some coutries the participants are simply the elite estate farms, in others it seems to be a much more democratic route to getting coffee into the auctions. as far as i know, nobody is really studying the impact from one origin to the next in terms of the overall auction-effect. i did notice today that a report has been written about the Nicaragua CoE effect over the past 5 years, and i will check that out to see if it has any relevant info.

anyway, instead of gawking about prices, i wish we could turn toward a discussion of issues, and maybe of the former leads to the later, its a good thing. I mean, kopi luwak has kinda forced people to take issue with the idea of scarcity, price and cup quality, right?
let's cup through this ... together.
http://www.sweetmarias.com | http://www.coffeeshrub.com
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:24 pm
Location: West Oakland
full name: thompson r owen
company: sweet maria's
: www.sweetmarias.com
: www.coffeeshrub.com

Postby James Hoffmann on Tue May 29, 2007 4:10 pm

Just as a side note - prompted in a way by the above post the whole Geisha thing nudged me to having a little look in my library to see what I could find in terms of reference to it.

So far (in my not too exhaustive lookings) I have only found one reference from a paper published in 1978* about the yields of various different cultivars in a farm in Costa Rica. Thought a few may be interested in the only really interesting table:

Cultivar: t/ha/year

Red Catuai 23.7
Caturra 19.3
Mundo Novo 18.6
Geisha 16.6
Hibrido Tico 16.4
KP 423 15.3

The Hibrido Tico was taken as the local standard. There is a little more data on yields specific to plant spacing but I will leave that out for now unless anyone is really interested. The KP 423 was the other "African" coffee used for this study.

I remember someone posting about a presentation at last year's SCAA about an experiment done linking yield to quality with a Bourbon and something else (with a naturally higher yield, but lower cup quality that they prevented from producing as much to increase the cup quality). Has there been much other work done on the relationship between yield and quality. (Though according to a paper from 1969 between 23%-56% of total yield variation can be attributed to environmental factors - damn it, this all just makes me want the new ASIC CD-ROMs all the more!)

* Benavides, J.A. and Gutierrez, G.Z., Agronomia Costarricence,1978, 109-115
James Hoffmann
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:34 am
Location: London, UK
full name: James Hoffmann
company: Square Mile Coffee Roasters
: http://www.squaremilecoffee.com
: http://www.jimseven.com

Re: prices in the panama auction

Postby Matthew P. Williams on Tue May 29, 2007 5:07 pm

sweetmarias wrote:i mean, by my book i think i bought the best coffee in the auction.

...And at less than 1/10 the price of the #1 lot. Congrats.
Mmm, juicy. Tastes like juice. Bean juice.
Matthew P. Williams
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:57 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
full name: Matthew P. Williams
company: Four Barrel Coffee


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest